My family owns 80 undeveloped acres in a very rural area, we purchased in 1978 for $8000. I have a small trailer on it where I stay occasionally. I have thought about putting a cabin on it, but off-grid is illegal. A permanent structure requires a well, septic/drainage, and elec minimum. Talking to the county official I said, I need a $30,000 septic but a guy could put 100 cattle out here to shit wherever they like? He said, yes. Cattle don't use chemicals. Nor do I, I said, and those cattle are all on pharmaceuticals and I'm organic. I don't make the rules, he says. Nobody makes the rules, apparently, I said. Boom, down $50,000 with well and elec before I've even put in a foundation for the cabin. America, Yeah!.
Yeah, typical. I'm a fan of the "tis better to ask forgiveness" approach. My city has all sorts of rules for keeping chickens. I don't flagrantly disregard the rules, in case neighbors are prying, but I didn't even let the city know about my chickens because they've already shown me they will make stuff up before they admit you haven't done anything wrong.
Yeah, me too on the rules. But then, I tried that when I lived in Minneapolis. I built a greenhouse out of used sliding glass doors and reclaimed lumber. It heated the house on sunny days in the spring and fall. Extended the growing season by four months. Started a lot of my garden veggies in there. Helped insulate the house all winter. City sent me a letter, said I needed a permit. No I don't, it is under 200 sq ft and I didn't attach it to the house by any mechanical means. They fined me $1500. I filed a permit. They denied it. Fined me another thousand. After two years they said they were going to tear it down. Fox affiliate put me on the news, tracked down the head building official. Got a nice, sweet phone call from petty tyrant inspector who fined me: Head building official said you don't need a permit, under 200 sq ft, not attached to the house by any mechanical means. Rescinded $1000. Took em to court for the other $1500. Judge sided with the city.
At the 80 they could possibly condemn the land and take it, if I built off the grid. Land of the Free, home of the Brave.
Infuriating!! I swear those offices just fill up with petty, wannabe Nazis who get off on finding some new way to meddle. I got threatened with a fine if I didn't stop suffocating my burdock weeds with cardboard. There was no ordinance against this. I could HEAR the lady on the phone GOOGLING REASONS for it to be a problem when it wasn't one. Wound up removing all the cardboard before they inspected, then putting it back after they left.
One of the reasons I left the city. I was a general contractor. Inspectors all went from old dudes who had been in the business, to young pencil necks with a degree and a fat code book in hand, without any noticeable skills.
One would think we would be applauded for finding simple fixes to problems. But that was before I understood, technocrats only accept more complexity to smother you with.
Yes that is how the obnoxious bureaucrats of the professional managerial class rationalize their parasitic existence they see themselves as overseers of "complexity."
1. Proximity to medical care. (Apparently some teenagers think you can hit a baseball using your thumbnail.)
2. Quality of soil for gardens and pests. The soil here is good, but all sod / wild grasses right now. And this is a canola heavy area, which means there’s a billion cabbage moths and hungry grass hoppers, and infinite deer. It’ll take time to setup and adjust.
3. Internet access / utilities. There’s only a few providers, which impacts prices, but Starlink (despite being Elon) is actually really good.
4. Taxes vs insurance. One of the perks of this place was the low taxes, but we got blind-sided by the insurance, which is really high with bad coverage for some reason. Switching over the vehicles was expensive too, at least $2,000+ per vehicle.
5. It’s kind of annoying getting the right building materials here. There’s stores in town not far, but specific things we want are 2 hours away.
6. The culture is different here too. Everyone is nice and laid back, but have their own bias, and are terrible drivers.
7. In an emergency you’re on your own, basically. The fire service out here supposedly charges $25k for false calls, so you get pushed into fire insurance.
Only thing I would modify in any of that is the garden.
Good permaculture sufficient to support several families at once can be squeezed into as little as 4x4 sq meters.
If you go vertical upwards as well (tons of crops straight up on pvc pipes) or vertical down (potatoes, beets, radishes, etc.) you would be absolutely shocked at what fits on there.
If regularly circulated and oxygenated, big schools of fish can run around a 4 meter steel tank without any symptoms of overcrowding and fish waste makes superb plant food if composted correctly. A bug light over the trench can feed the entire school enough bugs each night to keep them all full.
When I see the gigantic gardens nowadays I wince at how much yield they deliver compared to the space they take up.
I knew a couple Australians who got yields out of a 1 meter stack that was out of this world. They were always giving away lettuce, tomatoes, strawberries, vegetables away to friends. Sacks of potatoes. After setup most of them rarely spent more than an hour a day on their plot and the abundancy was incredible.
I did notice that once their garden was nearly perfect, getting chickens causes a lot of problems. Disposing of the wastes and things like chickens getting in there and eating vegetables. So the chickens probably do need a dedicated space to keep them out of trouble and keep them safe from predators.
I would say 99%, your place sounds top. If you also got it cheap you are really living the dream. People might figure that out when they get hungry so I would invest in strategies to hide the place from the air and maybe even the nearest road once you realize it is getting crazy.
Where I live, it's now not possible to live amongst trees. Anywhere within 100 meters of a tree is declared to be bushfire prone. There is no concept of managing the bush to reduce the fire risk. That is anathema to the greens who fear a loss of biodiversity. Once upon a time road verges could be burnt. That's highly desirable if you want to make provision for people to escape a fire. It's not so much of a worry in relation to a fire truck getting in, to hose down your house, because it's now not regarded as desirable, due to worksafe considerations. There is a provision in the regulations that allows an owner to regard a building as an affordable loss to cater for the caravan park proprietors who know that people who live in small houses like to be under a shady tree, but the local planning officials are keen to look after you better than you would yourself, so they will stop that happening. Australians are not replacing themselves. Birth rate has fallen below replacement level. So, we encourage migration. That puts pressure on the housing situation. Planning law has resulted in the price of a house rising to six times average annual earnings from three times just fifty years ago. In 1908 a minimum wage was established that enabled a single male breadwinner to support a non-working wife and three children. These days, man and wife must work. Is that progress? This problem deserves a close focus. It needs analysis and some creative ideas. That's what I write about. I am an 80-year-old amateur (non-certified) builder who has rural property and is keen to meet the need. The root of the problem is the disenfranchising of rural landowners. The free market could deal with this problem. The problem is 'barriers to entry', and an inability of the market to meet the needs for less expensive forms of housing. About one third of householders are single person entities, currently living in mansions designed for families, in urban neighborhoods where nearly 80% of people will confess, they don't know the name of their neighbour. That doesn't make for a viable community. It takes a village to raise a child and to look after its elderly. I'm sorry I can't be more cheerful about this situation. I'm old enough to remember what it was like to live in a small town before the advent of the motor car. The ground has shifted from under our feet, and we haven't noticed it happening.
I think that many of answers to your questions depend on the use. Is it for an an occasional get-a-way or is it for a bug-out or is it a more or less permanent home? Some people may find a rural existence fun, until it isn't fun any more. Otherwise, you have done a nice job running down potential questions.
That's the comparison and there is no comparison. America's metro areas are rapidly becoming simple deathtraps for people who lack the imagination to visualize themselves getting killed.
My family owns 80 undeveloped acres in a very rural area, we purchased in 1978 for $8000. I have a small trailer on it where I stay occasionally. I have thought about putting a cabin on it, but off-grid is illegal. A permanent structure requires a well, septic/drainage, and elec minimum. Talking to the county official I said, I need a $30,000 septic but a guy could put 100 cattle out here to shit wherever they like? He said, yes. Cattle don't use chemicals. Nor do I, I said, and those cattle are all on pharmaceuticals and I'm organic. I don't make the rules, he says. Nobody makes the rules, apparently, I said. Boom, down $50,000 with well and elec before I've even put in a foundation for the cabin. America, Yeah!.
Yeah, typical. I'm a fan of the "tis better to ask forgiveness" approach. My city has all sorts of rules for keeping chickens. I don't flagrantly disregard the rules, in case neighbors are prying, but I didn't even let the city know about my chickens because they've already shown me they will make stuff up before they admit you haven't done anything wrong.
Yeah, me too on the rules. But then, I tried that when I lived in Minneapolis. I built a greenhouse out of used sliding glass doors and reclaimed lumber. It heated the house on sunny days in the spring and fall. Extended the growing season by four months. Started a lot of my garden veggies in there. Helped insulate the house all winter. City sent me a letter, said I needed a permit. No I don't, it is under 200 sq ft and I didn't attach it to the house by any mechanical means. They fined me $1500. I filed a permit. They denied it. Fined me another thousand. After two years they said they were going to tear it down. Fox affiliate put me on the news, tracked down the head building official. Got a nice, sweet phone call from petty tyrant inspector who fined me: Head building official said you don't need a permit, under 200 sq ft, not attached to the house by any mechanical means. Rescinded $1000. Took em to court for the other $1500. Judge sided with the city.
At the 80 they could possibly condemn the land and take it, if I built off the grid. Land of the Free, home of the Brave.
Infuriating!! I swear those offices just fill up with petty, wannabe Nazis who get off on finding some new way to meddle. I got threatened with a fine if I didn't stop suffocating my burdock weeds with cardboard. There was no ordinance against this. I could HEAR the lady on the phone GOOGLING REASONS for it to be a problem when it wasn't one. Wound up removing all the cardboard before they inspected, then putting it back after they left.
More like wannabe Communists these days.
True, but there's also very little difference when you compare them to a free society.
One of the reasons I left the city. I was a general contractor. Inspectors all went from old dudes who had been in the business, to young pencil necks with a degree and a fat code book in hand, without any noticeable skills.
One would think we would be applauded for finding simple fixes to problems. But that was before I understood, technocrats only accept more complexity to smother you with.
Yes that is how the obnoxious bureaucrats of the professional managerial class rationalize their parasitic existence they see themselves as overseers of "complexity."
Hubris is complexity assured of it's inevitability, doomed.
A couple things we realized / experienced.
1. Proximity to medical care. (Apparently some teenagers think you can hit a baseball using your thumbnail.)
2. Quality of soil for gardens and pests. The soil here is good, but all sod / wild grasses right now. And this is a canola heavy area, which means there’s a billion cabbage moths and hungry grass hoppers, and infinite deer. It’ll take time to setup and adjust.
3. Internet access / utilities. There’s only a few providers, which impacts prices, but Starlink (despite being Elon) is actually really good.
4. Taxes vs insurance. One of the perks of this place was the low taxes, but we got blind-sided by the insurance, which is really high with bad coverage for some reason. Switching over the vehicles was expensive too, at least $2,000+ per vehicle.
5. It’s kind of annoying getting the right building materials here. There’s stores in town not far, but specific things we want are 2 hours away.
6. The culture is different here too. Everyone is nice and laid back, but have their own bias, and are terrible drivers.
7. In an emergency you’re on your own, basically. The fire service out here supposedly charges $25k for false calls, so you get pushed into fire insurance.
8. Lots of flies. I am now the lord of the flies.
Great article.
Only thing I would modify in any of that is the garden.
Good permaculture sufficient to support several families at once can be squeezed into as little as 4x4 sq meters.
If you go vertical upwards as well (tons of crops straight up on pvc pipes) or vertical down (potatoes, beets, radishes, etc.) you would be absolutely shocked at what fits on there.
If regularly circulated and oxygenated, big schools of fish can run around a 4 meter steel tank without any symptoms of overcrowding and fish waste makes superb plant food if composted correctly. A bug light over the trench can feed the entire school enough bugs each night to keep them all full.
When I see the gigantic gardens nowadays I wince at how much yield they deliver compared to the space they take up.
I knew a couple Australians who got yields out of a 1 meter stack that was out of this world. They were always giving away lettuce, tomatoes, strawberries, vegetables away to friends. Sacks of potatoes. After setup most of them rarely spent more than an hour a day on their plot and the abundancy was incredible.
I did notice that once their garden was nearly perfect, getting chickens causes a lot of problems. Disposing of the wastes and things like chickens getting in there and eating vegetables. So the chickens probably do need a dedicated space to keep them out of trouble and keep them safe from predators.
Yeah that’s an area I am weak on. Still I am better prepped than 95 + percent of Americans.
I would say 99%, your place sounds top. If you also got it cheap you are really living the dream. People might figure that out when they get hungry so I would invest in strategies to hide the place from the air and maybe even the nearest road once you realize it is getting crazy.
I got it for 29K with an acre of land 6 years ago. It’s worth over a hundred grand now. It pays to be ahead of the curve.
I would love to see you do an article about this.
Where I live, it's now not possible to live amongst trees. Anywhere within 100 meters of a tree is declared to be bushfire prone. There is no concept of managing the bush to reduce the fire risk. That is anathema to the greens who fear a loss of biodiversity. Once upon a time road verges could be burnt. That's highly desirable if you want to make provision for people to escape a fire. It's not so much of a worry in relation to a fire truck getting in, to hose down your house, because it's now not regarded as desirable, due to worksafe considerations. There is a provision in the regulations that allows an owner to regard a building as an affordable loss to cater for the caravan park proprietors who know that people who live in small houses like to be under a shady tree, but the local planning officials are keen to look after you better than you would yourself, so they will stop that happening. Australians are not replacing themselves. Birth rate has fallen below replacement level. So, we encourage migration. That puts pressure on the housing situation. Planning law has resulted in the price of a house rising to six times average annual earnings from three times just fifty years ago. In 1908 a minimum wage was established that enabled a single male breadwinner to support a non-working wife and three children. These days, man and wife must work. Is that progress? This problem deserves a close focus. It needs analysis and some creative ideas. That's what I write about. I am an 80-year-old amateur (non-certified) builder who has rural property and is keen to meet the need. The root of the problem is the disenfranchising of rural landowners. The free market could deal with this problem. The problem is 'barriers to entry', and an inability of the market to meet the needs for less expensive forms of housing. About one third of householders are single person entities, currently living in mansions designed for families, in urban neighborhoods where nearly 80% of people will confess, they don't know the name of their neighbour. That doesn't make for a viable community. It takes a village to raise a child and to look after its elderly. I'm sorry I can't be more cheerful about this situation. I'm old enough to remember what it was like to live in a small town before the advent of the motor car. The ground has shifted from under our feet, and we haven't noticed it happening.
I'm always interested in learning all I can about this subject. Thanks!
I think that many of answers to your questions depend on the use. Is it for an an occasional get-a-way or is it for a bug-out or is it a more or less permanent home? Some people may find a rural existence fun, until it isn't fun any more. Otherwise, you have done a nice job running down potential questions.
It's more than just questions.
I am living here, so I am talking home. There is nothing less "fun" than America's dying cities IMO.
That's the comparison and there is no comparison. America's metro areas are rapidly becoming simple deathtraps for people who lack the imagination to visualize themselves getting killed.